I'm finding it very interesting that finally after all this time authorities are letting some answers out about Amy's case. Granted they are not giving it out to the public rather James ran across it almost by accident. Now from the get-go I've said Amy had to know who it was she was meeting that day. In Jame's most recent post he tells how it was that Det. Spaetzel left a note inside another case file and admits in it that Amy or the Mihaljevic family did know who the person/s were that was involved. Well duh, it's about time!
There was a police officer standing not 25 feet away from her when this man lured Amy away, he may not have been on duty but he definitely was there. The officer was pretty much harassing these three children as the man was coaxing Amy into the car. What's the chances that the officer saw what was going on and stood there and done nothing? What's the chances he knew who the person was that was doing this? I'd say there is a 100% chance! So then why hasn't that officer been questioned? Maybe he was and didn't tell the truth. Maybe he should take a lie detector test. Why wouldn't he tell the truth? Probably because he just stood there and done nothing while he was scaring the bejesus out of young Bay area children! A grown up bully wearing a uniform. That's pare for the course now isn't it.
Recently I wrote a story as to what happened to Amy and planned on posting it. I've since thought differently. Why , because the escape to the Ruggles area and the phone call just didn't jive when I thought about it. I was putting Amy in the Westlake house making the call from there. She couldn't have. Amy must have made the call just like the children said, from the payphone at Avellons, or there abouts. Amy probably also called before she was with the abductors. I just can't see them letting her make a call or getting out of the car again after getting in. At that point she was under there control and that's what they wanted. Moving on.......
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I don't think we'll ever really know how it happened until the person is caught. I remember reading Amy's mother said that Amy sounded kind of short on the phone, unusual for being her usual "chatterbox", so she could have very well have met this man already and he could have been standing right there. Amy's mother felt it odd enough that she did end up leaving her work with an ominous feeling. It's hard to say, she trusted him enough to go with him, he could have told her to call her mother but don't let on anything.
Anonymous:
Yes it could have happened that way,or she could have been affraid that she was going to miss this unknown guy just by making the call to her mother. Amy was trying to hurry. In doing so she wasn't saying much and the convesation was much different than Margaret ever remembers Amy of being.
I don't think Amy trusted him as much as people are being lead to believe. I think that someone else was there too. That's the person she trusted and then went right along with the program.
Here's a thought I'm sure no one will agree with but I'll say it anyway as it is a common scenario where children are concerned. Children respond to threats.
It seems certain that someone befriended her to the point she trusted enough to meet up with them. Sure, why would you think anyone was shady that wanted to meet you in so public a place. Everyone describes Amy as someone that was too smart to be fooled, but fooled she was - but that doesn't mean she didn't realize her mistake early on. So, they let her call her mother to buy themselves time but under what pretense did they tell her to call? Did Amy ask if she could make the call? We don't really know.
Amy sounds uneasy in the call - not like herself - maybe her instincts were kicking in and maybe she didn't go willing into the car under the same illusions. Maybe things changed right then and there and threats were made. We don't really know.
This whole thing could have gone down so differently than what any of us imagine. As for any police statements on the case to the public - I don't believe any of them have to be the truth. But it is important to not be locked into a certain way of thinking about this. Look outside of the box. Take everything you think you know about the case and look at it in an opposite way. I think that is why there isn't a lot of movement from the public. People have heard the same things for years and will say to themselves - oh well what I saw or heard then couldn't be because everyone says....
So I say - forget everything you've learned over the years if only for a moment. Maybe one person does hold the key but they don't know it because they think what has been said and written HAS to be the way it was.
It's exactly what Anonymous said above "I don't think we'll ever really know how it happened until the person is caught."
Anonymous:
Here's the thing that everybody keeps over looking, Amy's bike was at the school and that's where the story begins. Not at the shopping center. Thats what Margaret thought when she seen the bike and everyone was gone from the school, she knew nothing about the shopping center until sometime later. So the immediate thought was Amy was taken from the school. And that was what had given the abduuctor extra time.Amy was told to leave the bike there and to walk to the shopping center, she wasn't going to be able to take the bike shopping with her anyway. I imagine he told her that he would drop her off at the school when they returned. That's what made the police think she was kidnapped and go "full bore" on the case.
If the guy had gone to the school everyone would have noticed him because he was a stranger and the teachers would have known he didn't belong there.
The best place to not be noticed would have been the shopping center because there were other adults around coming and going. The abductor avoided the school so he wouldn't be noticed.I don't think he realized that the police dept was across the street.I don't think he done it infront of the police knowingly.I recall the first time I was there, I had no idea that the police dept. was in that building across the street. It looked to me like a library and not a police dept.
Even if he was with another person which I believe he was, the other person may not have known it either even if that person was from a neighboring community and had not had reason to be at that police dept.
@ Anonymous. It is possible the abductor did use threats. Maybe after meeting him she felt funny like something was wrong, and his sensed this and made the threat, you either come with me or I will hurt your Mom. Since he used her Mom as the lure, perhaps she thought he really did know her and could actually hurt her.
@Liz, when was the first time you came to Bay to look?
Esora:
I was there before James had written his first book.I had stopped to talk with Paula Varney, and her store at that time was an antique shop called the Ruggles Junction, it later changed to Crescent Moon Boutique and still is. It is located on the corner of 224 and 60 in Ruggles twp. just a few roads over from 1181 where Amy's body was found.
Liz:
Great point about the bike. Amy thought she would be returning to the school. Is it possible she was also mistaken in thinking she would be choosing the gift from a store in the nearby shopping center?
I don't know when James wrote his book.
The Bay police station has changed. It is now down next to the fire station just to the west of the Middle School. When the the city hall was still the police station, IMO it would have been obvious it was the police station. All the off duty police cars would have been parked in that little lot. Even if it did not dawn on the person that took her that was the police station, they would have at least seen the police presence (i.e. the off duty cars).
@ AP, I don't think Amy thought she would be buying the gift in the shopping center. She told people about going to "Parmatown Mall". So I think she had it in her head she would be going a mall.
I am not sure if the bike being left at the Middle school is a big deal. A lot of kids would leave their bikes there and walk over to the shopping center, or to the library and then come back and get it. The Middle school and the shopping center are not far apart, so I don't see it done to "throw off the scent". Now if the shopping center was on the other side of town, maybe. But it is way to close and too many kids walk to it or by it.
Ap:
I think Amy was told in a phone call ahead of time that they were going to a bigger mall.
Thanks for clarifying about the mall.
I still find the bike an interesting point. Whatever the killer told Amy made her think that she could come back and get it after the shopping trip. Perhaps she expected to be dropped off at the school. She could then ride home just as if she had actually had a choir audition that afternoon. Her mom wouldn't suspect a thing. Amy wanted to help with the gift for Margaret bad enough to lie to her in order to keep it a secret.
I think these small points are important. If we analyze Amy's actions and behavior in dealing with the killer then it may help to clarify our own picture of him, how he knew her and how he convinced her to go with him.
Esora:
I think Jame's book came out in 2005, not sure.
I was talking about the old police station. On that day was there many police cars in that lot? Remember they were all geared up for the return of Sam Shephard Jr. who was I think trying to reopen his fathers case. I'm thinking that most of the police cars were someplace else and even so the abductors were just shy of the parking lot at or very near where the other gas station was. I think Amy was on her way back to get her pride and joy as Margaret put it, her bike.
Most of the kids had already left the shopping center because it was getting late when Amy was being abducted I think. That's my opinion.
I think they done 1 or 2 different things,
they either told her they would pick her up at the shopping center and intended on doing that then maybe noticed the police cars, or they told her they would pick her up at the shopping center and knew that if they waited and Amy went there that she would get tired of waiting and start back for her bike at which point they would and did pick her up.That's my opinion of what went on at the shopping center.
To all:
I'll be offline until 9:00 pm,stop back and we'll chat!
I know you meant the old police station.
I don't think Sam Reese Shepherd being here would have changed the police activity to be honest. Bay does not have a large force. Off duty cars were always there.
Assuming Amy was taken between 3:30 and 4, then to me that was not late. That shopping center had Baskin Robins in it. So if school got out around 3:10, kids would take their time packing up, and walking over there. It would be nothing to still have kids there at this time.
Sure, the fact Amy left her bike at school, meant she thought she was coming back for it. But I don't think it meant that much to the person that took her.
There wasn't much to Bay Village then as there isn't now so I'm certain whoever took Amy knew the police station was across the road. This area is the active hub of Bay, there aren't too many other areas where people congregate (ie in terms of shops etc) with the exception of the various schools. Without a doubt whomever took Amy knew the Police Station was there, you couldn't miss it. On a side note (as someone who grew up in Bay from 1976-89 the Police were always fantastic so I'm curious why you wrote:
'What's the chances he knew who the person was that was doing this? I'd say there is a 100% chance! So then why hasn't that officer been questioned? Maybe he was and didn't tell the truth. Maybe he should take a lie detector test. Why wouldn't he tell the truth? Probably because he just stood there and done nothing while he was scaring the bejesus out of young Bay area children! A grown up bully wearing a uniform. That's pare for the course now isn't it.'
What makes you think that a)the policeman may have lied under questioning (ridiculous theory if you ask me, b)was bullying the kids present, if memory serves the kids involved were trouble so it would seem acceptable to me if he was seeing what they were up to. On another note if Amy was comfortable enough to meet the kidnapper, walk away with him and possibly make a phone call from Avalone's how would the policeman have been expected to assume something was wrong?
My guess is that any info the policeman may have given in an interview has been kept quiet until they have more evidence etc.
In any event, lets hope the authorities are getting closer to finding the bastard who did this.
Esora:
That day there was a big ralley about Sam Reese Shepherd being in town, all the police were called in to cover everything dealing with that.They did say that all officers were accounted for except a few and they did know where they were.
The idea was that everyone would think Amy was taken from the school, and her mom did.Margaret went to the police station from the school , telling them that Amy was taken from the school because the bike was still there and Amy wouldn't have left her bike. Amy's parents didn't know about her going to met this man at the shopping center until later on.
I just do not remember that Sam ralley at all. Where did he hold this? I know he tried to get into his old house before they tore it down.
I get Amy's Mom thought she was taken from school because her bike was still there. However, I just don't know if I believe the person who took her, actually thought that out. Thinking hmmm, well if I make her leave her bike at school then they will think she was taken from there and buy me more time. I think it was just an innocent action on Amy's part. It was a safe place to leave her bike.
Dave:
Because the boy made the comment that he wouldn't look the policeman in the eyes makes me think that there was a problem with the boy or the policeman either one. I'm just questioning what has already been said by others.
People have assumed that the cop seen someone because he was talking to the witness who wouldn't look him in the eye and the boy saw someone. Someone had expressed that to me at one time that they thought the cop seen someone.That's what I'm here for,to pull it all apart. Thanks good question.
IF the officer DID see and didn't know what was going on at the time then when he was questioned he may not have thought to say he seen the guy and had already made the statement that he saw nothing.In other words he foregot if he seen him or not.
Esora:
The fact is they had no idea that Amy was missing from the shopping center to start with. I don't recall the name of the place Shepherd was at, but I'm thinking it was the same place James was honored at for his first book.
I see on Oct 27, Sam Reese Shepherd was in Cleveland at the City Club. Still am not seeing what he did in Bay that day.
Esora:
I'll have to go back in my notes to see where that was. I'll get back to you with that.
Esora, I agree with that more than what I proposed up thread.
When I read Amy's mother describe the phone call, my first thought was that she was calling under his threats. I would think that Amy would be starting to get suspicious, wasn't it about an hour after she met him? What was the timeline for when the witnesses saw Amy taken away and the phone call to her mother?
I don't necessarily think leaving the bike at the school was to bide time, but if he did tell her to leave her bike there, he probably figured having a bike around the shopping center to worry about would cause more attention to themselves. It would be easier and faster to lead her off without having to fuss about the bike she brought with her.
Esora, I agree with that more than what I proposed up thread.
When I read Amy's mother describe the phone call, my first thought was that she was calling under his threats. I would think that Amy would be starting to get suspicious, wasn't it about an hour after she met him? What was the timeline for when the witnesses saw Amy taken away and the phone call to her mother?
I don't necessarily think leaving the bike at the school was to bide time, but if he did tell her to leave her bike there, he probably figured having a bike around the shopping center to worry about would cause more attention to themselves. It would be easier and faster to lead her off without having to fuss about the bike she brought with her.
How do we even know the person that took her knew she would have a bike that day even?
While people do ride bikes in that shopping center. There really is no place to put them. I think there used to be a mini bike rack over by Roger and Rays, but in general they don't want bikes there. Really, the Middle School bike rack was the only safe place for her to leave her bike.
Anonymous:
TEN YEAR REPORT
The description provided by witnesses was based on fleeting glimpses of a man seen approaching Amy, but not in actual contact with her.
How could there be a timeline?
That's from the FBI Please tell me why you think she was lead away.
Amy talked to the man on the phone, don't you think she may have said I'm riding my bike on Friday? Or he already knew from watching her from a distance she would ride her bike? Either way she did and left it at the school.
To All:
what if Amy is walking back towards the school because it is getting late, later than normal for her to be getting home, as she crosses the parking lot she hears, "Hey Amy", and it's someone she knows. That person is standing beside a car with the door open, one foot in and the other foot out. He says " I've got your moms friend with me" "He said you better come on if your going shoppen, times a waste en"."Let's go girl"." Get the lead out"! And Amy walks over and gets in! She knows the one guy already! She trusted him! Amy thought he would never hurt her.
Now does that look like she was lead away? It does look like it could have happened to a very excited little girl who's going shopping for a surprise gift for her mother.
This type of thing does happen, it could have happened to her.
Just like a parent teaching their child not talk to strangers.They know in their heart their child will do as they were taught. When the first stranger comes along and asks" can you help me find my puppy"? They go right with the stranger! That is a proven fact.
Moving on.............
I am not sure I am following this. Being lead away could mean many things. She could have been physically lead away, or if she got into a car willing, she could still have been lead away. Its just a matter of semantics.
In the end does it really matter?
All we know is she went missing somewhere between the Middle School and Dover Center Rd. A piece of Wolf Rd, maybe 1/4th mile if that. I would guess it was closer to Dover Center (the shopping center) and not to school, because the school has a crossing guard at the corner of Wolf and Cahoon Rd.
The bike aspect could have been something he plotted, but I feel like it was more part of Amy's plan. She was hoping for a quick trip to the mall, back to the school, hop on the bike and ride home. The school was likely the safest place for the bike and fit along with the lie to her mom about the choir engagement.
I do find it likely that the killer gave Amy explicit instructions as to when and where to be that day. His plan was pretty complex- its not a stretch to theorize that a lot of thought was put into every tiny detail, even something like where to leave the bike.
First of all I think the bike could be fairly an irrelevant point.
Having said that - Secondly, it had to be someone that had not just gained her trust but someone she knew very, very well. Maybe the set up of the present never came to be - it was just that - a set up. Maybe she was being stood up in a way, made phone call and as she was still hanging around someone she knew very very well said -'come on I'll give you a ride back to your bike' .
Now the reason I say she had to not merely trust but know him very very well is because a stranger who had just recently gained someone's trust would have no reason to believe she would not tell someone everything. I don't care what the pretense was, how much she loved her mother, little kids can not be trusted to not blab. How was he so certain she would not spill everything to an adult? I don't think he was very explicit for just that reason. If she had confided all and an adult decided to catch him -they would have his every move. I think things were made confusing so a level headed little girl didn't have time to think.
But she did tell friends bits and pieces of what was going on. I don't know why but I think if it was someone she knew VERY VERY well, she could have said to a friend, oh yeah I am going with Uncle Bob (or whatever his name was) to get a gift for my Mom. Maybe she didn't say a name because deep down she knew it was wrong to trust a stranger. Who knows.
I still think it could have been a stranger that befriended her. We really don't know what he said to her. He could have given some details about her Mother that made her think, oh he knows my Mom well so it might be ok to go with him.
Plus, just because no one reported a "scene" in the shopping center, doesn't mean he didn't show her a gun or knife and told her to come peacefully or she and her family would be hurt.
At this point, I just want to know the Why? Why Amy? Why that day?
Esora:
At this point, I just want to know the Why? Why Amy? Why that day?
1. They needed a female.
2. Amy was available,a virgin
3. Close to a holiday
I still think the abductor was a stranger to her. If he called her a few times, he probably didn't seem like a stranger to her by the time they were to meet. She told classmates that she was going to meet a friend she hadn't met yet. If she had recognized a voice, I think she would have told someone.
I thought I had previously read that someone saw her approach a man. She might have been asking him if he was the one whom she was to meet that day.
You really think it was a cult that took her?
Thanks for your earlier response Liz.
If I might suggest something regarding the bike dilemma. James mentioned in his book that unlike the other kids Amy's bike was an old-styled (old-fashioned?) bike, and that she was very proud of it. A bike of this design would have stood out, more so when it's rider was a young girl. Might this suggest that a)her abductor knew her enough (either personally or by stalking her) to know what type of bike she had? b)If so then perhaps suggested to her to leave the 'noticeable' bike at the school as a means of not drawing attention to herself (and him)?
Judi:
It is my opinion that there was two people involved in the abduction. Amy would have known the one and not the other.
Not much known about that man,if there was a man.The only thing I can think of is Amy may have been asking the time of day.
Esora:
Refer back to Jame's site and check out the pictures.(early post)
Dave:
You are absolutly correct, I couldn't have said it better.
Thanks
I don't think my post went through.
When I meant "lead her away" I didn't necessarily mean physically led away. It can mean verbally led.
Also, when I mean timeline, I meant the time span for the eye witnesses to see a man approach (composite sketch) and when Amy called her mother. I'm not sure if it was somewhere, like the ten year report.
Amy was seen talking to the "stranger" at about 2:45pm, she called her mother around 3:15pm, Margeret got home around 4pm.
Thanks, Curious. I don't know if you would consider that a short or long time frame (if the person she was talking to is the perp).
Where was this drugstore where someone could have seen Amy on the phone (reported by someone's grandmother or some such).
Real nice ! Many thanks !
Thanks for your input!
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